Gil
Apprentice
teh spazzy queen
Posts: 54
|
Post by Gil on Oct 7, 2008 16:33:07 GMT -5
I was just watching George Carlin on abortion... Here's what he said, just something to think about. "Is a fetus a human being? This seems to be the central question. Well, if a fetus is a human being, how come the census doesn't count them? If a fetus is a human being, how come when there's a miscarriage they don't have a funeral? If a fetus is a human being, how come people say we have two children and one on the way instead of saying we have three children? People say life begins at conception, I say life began about a billion years ago and it's a continuous process. Continuous, just keeps rolling along. Listen, you can go back further than that. What about the carbon atoms? Human life could not exist without carbon. So is it just possible that maybe we shouldn't be burning all this coal?" He goes on to talk about how, according to the life begins at fertilization theory, any woman who has had more than one period is a serial killer. xD www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrXvDXVhqfU(For those who are unfamiliar with George Carlin... *cough* Language. Among other things.) I will be giving your (ladytera and Gil's) points some thought, and will reply eventually. Why doesn't the census count them? Probably because there are a lot of inconsistencies in the government. See: being charged for double murder if you kill a pregnant woman [Scott Pederson case]. Why aren't there funerals? Again, I don't know - I think it depends on the family. Although, I would say, that maybe some families do have "funerals" - just not in the sense we may think. There would be no point inviting a lot of people to a funeral for a miscarriage because other than the mother of the child, and maybe the father and siblings, no other people would really even be able to "know" the baby. Why do people say we have two and one on the way, ect? Probably out of habit. Doesn't mean they don't actually consider the fetus not a baby yet. And actually, a woman I know from church was showing me a tatoo on her back that represents the members of her family. She said the little stars represented her children, and she named them all. I was confused, because there were 4 stars and only 3 names. "Why do you have 4 stars?" I asked, thinking maybe she was pregnant again. However, she told me that she had a miscarriage between her 2nd and 3rd children, and she counted that child (son) just as much as the rest of her children. But anyway. And there is a HUGE difference between carbon and a fetus. Obviously that was a very poor argument, and hopefully you don't need me to explain that to you. However, if you want me to, I will.
|
|
Raivynn
Journeyman
...my winter storm
Posts: 187
|
Post by Raivynn on Oct 7, 2008 16:38:54 GMT -5
Sorry for the off-topicness. But I had to say something. George Carlin passed away quite recently, and as a fan of the man and his work I'd appreciate it if he was not referred to as an idiot. Whatever you think of his politics, that does not make him an idiot.
|
|
|
Post by keyodie on Oct 7, 2008 19:25:59 GMT -5
Well then, that just shows there's inconsistencies on both sides, doesn't it? And I think Eric has already addressed the double murder thing. Abortion is when a woman kills an extension of herself while a murderer takes both without her permission. It's a bit different. Same with the other points (funeral & people saying "one on the way"). It's all about the inconsistencies in the arguments.
Lmao yes, I know this. xD That was mainly a joke. Again, the basic theme in what George Carlin said is the inconsistencies. I guess I shouldn't have put that in the quote, but I found it funny so I just put it in. ;D
Raivynn - He was a funny, memorable guy. He will be missed. (I just watched his list of people who ought to be killed... hilarious. xD)
|
|
|
Post by Caunion on Oct 7, 2008 20:11:15 GMT -5
Yes, I agree. I found it quite insensitive (even by my standards) to dismiss him as an idiot.
His point about carbon atoms is life can't existent without carbon. Carbon is an atom that can create four bonds with other atoms, which allows it to form long carbon chain molecules. The four main organic molecules needed by life are carbohydrates, lipids, proteins, and nucleic acid. All built from the carbon atom. Unfortunately, for the purpose of the joke, the carbon cycle wouldn't have worked, thus why he didn't mention it.
|
|
|
Post by keyodie on Oct 19, 2008 13:54:20 GMT -5
Alright, LT, I'm not going to reply to your whole post. But what exactly makes the unborn baby's life more important than the mother's? Imagine if one of the girls that were raped aspired to becoming a pediatrician since a very young age. Her life and her dreams would be ruined. There is no way she could afford 8 years of college or even find the time to dedicate herself to a career in the medical field as a single mother. Yes, adoption is definitely an option. But it's not as pretty as it sounds. Adopted children and mothers who give up their child are all traumatized and experience many psychological issues, it's not just for those who had abortions. No one can lose their mother without being affected negatively, and it is the same for mothers who lose their children. Not to mention the fact that so many kids remain unadopted or are passed from household to household so often. And your "murder" argument is under the assumption that a fetus is a person. Murder is defined as the unlawful killing of another human person. ETA:: This is what someone posted on another forum I visit. -------------------------------------- I read these the other day, and even though I am sure I am going to get flamed, these are both so worth posting that I couldn't not.Why No One With a Uterus Should Vote for John McCain by Julie of a little pregnant. Excerpt: More Wounded Than Eloquent, I'm Afraid by Flotsam Excerpt: Go read them both. I only posted excerpts, but they should be read fully. -------------------------------------- Just to wrap this all up... Gil, you said that you think abortion should only be legal in cases where the mother's life is in danger. But where do you draw the line between health and life? For example, the second excerpt that the person posted. If she hadn't had an abortion as early as she did, she might be dead or missing a uterus. Another example, quoted from someone else of the same forum:
|
|