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Post by keyodie on Oct 5, 2008 17:06:14 GMT -5
So, do you think UFO's and aliens exist? Or do you think the whole thing is, quoting a very wise man, "bollocks"?
I keep an open mind when it comes to aliens. I mean, it's very possible. This is one huge universe, there's gotta be other living beings out there somewhere.
I'm not sure about these people seeing flying saucers and aliens with huge eyes that abduct cows and whatnot, though. But who knows? Weren't there cavemen that drew some pretty weird things? Maybe these weird legends are derived from the truth?
Anyway, if you have any thoughts, post'em here.
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Raivynn
Journeyman
...my winter storm
Posts: 187
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Post by Raivynn on Oct 5, 2008 17:12:23 GMT -5
I myself am a firm believer. The universe is so vast and we have no idea how advanced other worlds may be. There has to be some life out there, somewhere.
Do they come here? I dunno, I'm torn. I have seen some things that make me say yes.
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Post by keyodie on Oct 5, 2008 19:24:59 GMT -5
Yeah, there are some pretty striking coincidences among people who claim to have been abducted. But that could be because they themselves heard about the abductions and had some weird extremely vivid dream. Do you think aliens fly around in saucers and look like this, though?
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Loki
Student
Posts: 32
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Post by Loki on Oct 6, 2008 4:48:36 GMT -5
They exists without a doubt, it just seems that both our capabilities at current are keeping us apart.
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Post by ladytera on Oct 6, 2008 23:27:21 GMT -5
Loki, and any other atheist/agnostic types here, so you believe in little green men, with no evidence, based on the idea that the universe is too big not to have other sentient life, but the idea that there is a God is unrealistic? Can't say I can wrap my head around that dichotomy, but different strokes for different folks I suppose.
As for my opinion (back on topic), I think it's entirely possible that there are alien beings. I tend to doubt they are little green or grey men with big heads and big eyes, but I guess that's possible too.
I don't really believe that they've come to visit us? The same reason I think they're possible. The universe is vast, what are the odds that they would stumble upon us from somewhere out there in the brief time we've had technology enough to project our presence (radio, light, etc, as well as space programs) into the space outside our atmosphere? If on the other hand, there are enough other sentient species out there that there were actually more than one in our immediate vicinity, then I would have to say the evidence of their existence would have to be much greater than it actually is.
They are probably out there, but I doubt we'll ever meet them, at least not any time soon.
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Post by keyodie on Oct 7, 2008 7:11:04 GMT -5
I agree with the rest of your post, but I guess I'll address your question.
Why do I believe that there may be aliens? I'm assuming you know how vast and incomprehensibly large the universe is. Also, there is the fact that at one time, Mars had life. Because of this, I think it is very possible that there may be life out there that we don't know about, you think the same yourself. It is also very scientifically possible.
However, the stories of the Bible seem like exactly that: stories. Children's bedtime stories. Just to state an example, it is not scientifically possible for the Red Sea to be parted. There's more I could say about how unrealistic the Bible seems to someone who does not believe in it, but not much I can say without sounding like an ass.
Now I'm just saying how aliens could be more likely than God, I'm not saying there's no god. I think it's possible. So I'm guessing you're asking atheists more than you are agnostics.
By the way, you make it sound like aliens are unrealistic by calling them "little green men" when you believe it's possible yourself. And I don't think many people believe in green men with huge black oval eyes. Just saying.
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Raivynn
Journeyman
...my winter storm
Posts: 187
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Post by Raivynn on Oct 7, 2008 16:25:40 GMT -5
I believe in little grey men
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Post by Lady Dark Moon on Oct 7, 2008 19:36:41 GMT -5
Loki, and any other atheist/agnostic types here, so you believe in little green men, with no evidence, based on the idea that the universe is too big not to have other sentient life, but the idea that there is a God is unrealistic? Can't say I can wrap my head around that dichotomy, but different strokes for different folks I suppose. There is a significant difference between believing in the Christian concept of God and believing in intelligent design. And yes, I believe it's entirely possible that other life exists. Has anyone here read A Wrinkle in Time? It addresses the notion that whatever sentient lifeforms that are out there are entirely beyond our comprehension. Different senses, etc.
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Post by keyodie on Oct 7, 2008 20:21:02 GMT -5
Haha well what about rainbow aliens? I think those are just as likely as little grey men.
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Gil
Apprentice
teh spazzy queen
Posts: 54
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Post by Gil on Oct 8, 2008 18:53:16 GMT -5
Loki, and any other atheist/agnostic types here, so you believe in little green men, with no evidence, based on the idea that the universe is too big not to have other sentient life, but the idea that there is a God is unrealistic? Can't say I can wrap my head around that dichotomy, but different strokes for different folks I suppose. There is a significant difference between believing in the Christian concept of God and believing in intelligent design. What is the "significant difference"? I'm curious to know...because to me, they could be one and the same. As for the entire "alien" question...honestly, I have no clue. Thinking about aliens (or more often - the "abduction" stories) actually creeps me out quite a bit I guess it's totally possible...but if there is other intelligent life out there, I have a feeling it will be a LOOONG time we come into contact with it...if ever.
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Post by keyodie on Oct 8, 2008 19:21:14 GMT -5
I'll just say what LDM told me at school today. Believing in aliens does not mean accepting a moral code.
I'd also like to add, believing in God means believing the provided answers to life's most important, unanswered questions: Where does the world come from? What happens after we die? What makes the world us around us what it is today? The concept of aliens answers none of those questions, it simply suggests that there just might be life out there in this huge universe that we don't know about.
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Post by ladytera on Oct 8, 2008 21:05:05 GMT -5
My comments on the question of belief in a God (please note, I did not specify my God) and that of the belief in aliens has parallels. In the question of any God, agnostics (and yes I know they acknowledge the possibility, but they seek proof before they will say they believe) and atheists, states that there can be no God because there is no proof. And yet, these same folks will say that they are pretty sure there are aliens because the universe is such a vast place it would just make sense to them that there would be. It is a basic inconsistency in a thought process that claims scientific proof as the golden rule for belief. And, before you get mad at me on an individual level, that is mostly a generalization. I realize and recognize that each of you here are individuals, and have your individual reasoning behind your theories on both subject. It was simply an observation. I think what LDM may have been saying about Intelligent Design not being the same as Christianity is this: Christians believe in intelligent design. By definition, since they believe God created everything, there would have to be intelligent design. LDM was pointing out that there are many others, including scientists, atheists, agnostics, etc. that also believe in Intelligent Design, even if they don't believe in the Christian God. Ergo, Intelligent Design is not the sole province of Christians. Little Grey Men and Little Rainbow Men would be way cool. I personally favor the crystalline based life form, perceived by humans mostly as bright lights, that in Star Trek referred to us humans as "ugly sack of mostly water." But, hey, that's just me.
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Post by keyodie on Oct 8, 2008 21:16:53 GMT -5
My comments on the question of belief in a God (please note, I did not specify my God) and that of the belief in aliens has parallels. In the question of any God, agnostics (and yes I know they acknowledge the possibility, but they seek proof before they will say they believe) and atheists, states that there can be no God because there is no proof. And yet, these same folks will say that they are pretty sure there are aliens because the universe is such a vast place it would just make sense to them that there would be. It is a basic inconsistency in a thought process that claims scientific proof as the golden rule for belief. And, before you get mad at me on an individual level, that is mostly a generalization. I realize and recognize that each of you here are individuals, and have your individual reasoning behind your theories on both subject. It was simply an observation. I don't know about others here, but I only think it's possible, I don't think it's absolutely definitely a fact that there are aliens. However, to me, aliens seem a lot more likely than believing in an organized religion. I can think that there may be some life somewhere in this incomprehensibly (that's an awesome word btw) large world. But... splitting the Red Sea? A whale eating a man and then spitting him back out? Ehhhh not so much. Haha we're getting off topic. Btw, sorry, it does seem like I'm only picking on Christianity, but I also think some of the other stories in other religions are very unlikely to have happened. I'm just not as familiar with them.
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Post by ladytera on Oct 9, 2008 2:25:48 GMT -5
The Red Sea parting was actually scientifically and archeologically proven to have happened. I know I mentioned that before, and I did look for the link, but the History Channel website is a pain, and I couldn't pinpoint the show I was watching on that. I'll ask Bubba's Dad if he remembers the name of the show. As to Jonah and the whale, I'm pretty sure I heard something about that as well. You're right though, this is a bit off topic.
One more off topic note, a God and organized religion are two different things. God is God, no matter which faith you're discussing. Organized religion is man's attempt to understand the incomprehensible (I like that word too).
I had noticed that several people had posted that they definitely believed in the existence of aliens. Several of them also have posted in the religious topics. Thus, the observation. Twas general, as I said, not specific to any one persons thoughts on little grey/green/rainbow/crystal men.
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Post by keyodie on Oct 9, 2008 6:03:36 GMT -5
I'm still a bit skeptical though, since I found a link that said that it actually wasn't true... But eh, whatever. I'd be interested and seeing what you find.
And sorry about the "organized religion" bit, bad word choice. I just mean that the examples I listed are a lot less believable to me than aliens.
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Hravan
Journeyman
Life is a Musical
Posts: 106
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Post by Hravan on Oct 9, 2008 18:02:49 GMT -5
I do believe there is other life in the universe. I find it very unlikely, that with the billions, upon billions of stars out there with their own solar systems etc that this is the only body with the ability to hold life. As for visiting us I'm not sure. For a number of reasons. 1. If another form of life is able to travel near to our Earth or have developed the technology to be able to know that there's life here then they are a hell of a lot more intelligent than us. Therefore, they're a hell of a lot more intelligent than us so why would they bother visiting us? 2. This one comes from my astronomy teacher: Maybe we're under quarantine? They're not sure exactly what we are so are watching us to try and figure it out. Or maybe they're seeing how much we're destroying the planet (before anyone jumps down my throat, I don't mean global warming/climate change) or how appalling we treat our fellow human beings and other life on this planet that they don't want anything to do with us?
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Post by Lady Dark Moon on Oct 12, 2008 23:07:58 GMT -5
My comments on the question of belief in a God (please note, I did not specify my God) and that of the belief in aliens has parallels. In the question of any God, agnostics (and yes I know they acknowledge the possibility, but they seek proof before they will say they believe) and atheists, states that there can be no God because there is no proof. And yet, these same folks will say that they are pretty sure there are aliens because the universe is such a vast place it would just make sense to them that there would be. It is a basic inconsistency in a thought process that claims scientific proof as the golden rule for belief. And, before you get mad at me on an individual level, that is mostly a generalization. I realize and recognize that each of you here are individuals, and have your individual reasoning behind your theories on both subject. It was simply an observation. I think what LDM may have been saying about Intelligent Design not being the same as Christianity is this: Christians believe in intelligent design. By definition, since they believe God created everything, there would have to be intelligent design. LDM was pointing out that there are many others, including scientists, atheists, agnostics, etc. that also believe in Intelligent Design, even if they don't believe in the Christian God. Ergo, Intelligent Design is not the sole province of Christians. I disagree with your comment on agnostics. I classify myself as agnostic. I do not seek proof for anything. I realize that human knowledge is limited and that proof has little value. However, Christianity contradicts my views on morality and life in general. But that's for another discussion. On Christianity and intelligent design. Muslims believe in intelligent design. So do Hindus. So did the Greeks. Just because one does not believe in Jesus doesn't mean one does not believe in god(s). As for aliens... hraven made a few good points, but it's also possible that any lifeforms out there are entirely beyond our comprehension. Their motives, their "technology"... who knows? They might not even care about Earth. We're one wittle planet among an infinity of stars... who cares about us? I think it's a bit arrogant of us to assume that aliens would want to waste time and energy observing us blundering around.
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