Magick(Or lack thereof)

[Ammy Fae]

This is bound to bring up some discussions(and already has by the looks of it), so I figured I'd make a thread about it and get things rolling.

First of all, to reiterate our dear Caunion's constitution, there will be no hate in this thread, no matter where the discussion leads. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, though I would much prefer you give reasons as to why you think the way you do. That's the point of a discussion topic.

Moving along.

(Magick as defined by dictionary.com)
n. An action or effort undertaken because of a personal need to effect change, especially as associated with Wicca or Wiccan beliefs.

This is from www.wicca.com and, in my opinion, one of the best opinions on magick I've seen.

I suppose I could ramble on for quite some time about what Magick of Wicca, Witches and Witchcraft is or is not. Instead, I will offer this brief writing I found somewhere. Unfortunately I cannot remember where I came across it or who the author was, but I thought it was clear, concise and to the point. It very simply dispels everything that some religions, old superstitions and of course Hollywood have tried to make people believe magick is.

Magick is finding your connection to the Earth and all that is natural, alive and moving in the universe! It binds all that exists together.

Magick is living in balance with the flow of life, and knowing that you are a vital force within that flow. Magick is everywhere! In the trees, rain, stars, and in the sea. It is the spark that quickens a seed to rise up from the soil.

Magick is laughter, joy, wonder and truth the of the world around us!

It is the subtle enchantment that reminds us not to waste a single moment of this gift that we call life! Magick is not greed, or power, or pretense...It is real. It exists. And it works.

Magick is the mystery that lies in the secret soul of the world. It is the essence of creation. What we imagine, we have the power to create!

MAGICK IS WITHIN YOU...

With it you can create your dreams, heal your world, love your life and find the peace that lives in every human heart.

Author Unknown

Now, there gives you two definitions of Magick, one a broad generalization and one an opinion on the meaning of Magick and how it applies to us.

As a scholar, I study anything I can get my hands on, and that includes Magick. I don't claim to be an expert. I don't think any one person could ever completely understand it because, like anything that involves faith, it's often imperceptible. You can't always see it, you can't always feel it, you can't hear or smell or taste it and that is terrifying to some extent. Sensory deprivation is the best and worst possible thing to happen to a human being. Worst because we rely on our senses to know what's around us; it's both defense and offense and our only means of communication without the convenience of speech. It's also the best thing because being deprived of any physical sense allows inner senses to work better. Through focus, anyone can learn to trigger things beyond the physical senses that limit us. That part's not Magick, it's self control.

---Are Wicca and Magick the same thing?
That depends on who you talk to, really. I think that they directly relate to eachother because, as a Wiccan, I believe that the energies in the Earth very much have to do with the same energies that are considered Magick. The Wiccan religion is vast. It covers a lot of belief systems that don't necessarily apply to universal energies. I haven't explored all of them, so I can't generalize, just tell you my own opinions on it.

I don't call myself a Witch because I study rather than practice Magick. That's partially because of my own aversion to personal gain and partially because I don't live alone and I respect my mother's wishes that I wait until after I'm living elsewhere to practice anything I'm curious about. So, for me, being Wiccan and being a Witch are two different things. One is the belief system and one is the practice of a part of that belief system. Comparing it to Christianity, not all Christians become priests or ministers or clergymen.

From wicca.com:

Some say yes, and some say no. I suppose the only way to navigate this question safely is to point out what some may consider the main differences. In general, Wiccans feel free to review different belief systems, such as Celtic, Norse, Essene, Gnosis, or Shamanism, and then blend together any points that "feel" right into their own personal path. Pure Witchcraft on the other hand, may focus a little more tightly on using Magick and ritual to work with the elemental and spiritual forces in nature. Regardless, I feel the differences are slight in that Wicca and Witchcraft both work to achieve balance and harmony within nature and self.

Personally, I follow a predominately Celtic Witch/Tantric path. As time passes, I find myself increasingly drawing upon the wisdom and beliefs of other spiritual paths as my knowledge and understanding of them increases. So, when asked I'll tell you I'm a Witch, I also consider myself a Wiccan and perhaps part Shaman because I utilize and blend aspects of them all.

On the other hand, my ex-wife shares many of the same beliefs regarding the Creative Force of the universe and living in harmony with nature but she does not consider herself Wiccan, Witch or Shaman. Instead she prefers to call herself Christian but not in the conventional sense as she does follow the doctrine of the Bible, not the church's often biased and slanted interpretation of it.

---Who do Witches worship?
Whomever they choose, in my firm opinion. Because no one person can explain the existence of God or the Goddess, I encourage everyone to come up with their own 'versions' so to speak. Religion, as a whole in regards to Magick, is very flexible and tolerant.

From wicca.com:

There is a single power defined as the One or All, which is composed of everything it has ever created. This supreme energy force does not rule over the Universe, it IS the Universe. Since most find it difficult to talk to or call upon a faceless mass of Divine energy, this supreme power is personified into male and female aspects as the Goddess and God. This simply makes the concept easier for the human mind to comprehend and relate to. Some take this concept a step further and use actual names, like Astarte, Isis, Odin, Pan, Dianna, Cernunnos, etc., when invoking the Goddess and God. In the end, it is a personal preference and what a Witch uses depends on what "feels" right for them individually.

--- How do Witches view Christianity? Are Witches Anti-Christian?
Touchy, because everyone has their own opinions and thoughts on religion. Witchcraft is, again, a very tolerable belief system. I encourage anyone to believe what they will so long as it doesn't harm or oppress someone else.

I myself am not Anti-Christian and I hope that anyone else who declares themselves Wiccan are on the same wave-length. Being anti-anything in that sense is not only harmful to your own psyche, but useless against those you oppose. Wasted energy.

From wicca.com:

Not necessarily. Witchcraft, overall, is very tolerant of other religious views, and does not engage itself in criticizing the beliefs of other people, providing that their beliefs do not violate the basic tenant of "Harm None." Witches do object to religions that attempt to suppress the religious beliefs of others, or every human's right to seek spirituality in their own way. This is why there is a slight rub between Wiccans, Pagans, Witches, and some Christians. Many of them feel they have exclusive rights to the divine. We also have a strong disdain for those who use religion as an excuse to commit mass genocide. The "Burning Times" are a clear historical example of one religious group attempting to exert its philosophies and beliefs upon others using extreme measures.

Perhaps an over simplified way of describing our view is this: Imagine a beautiful meadow in the forest, and their are many paths leading to this meadow. It really does not matter which path you take to get there, the important thing is that you get there without harming anyone or anything along the way.

---Can I follow the path of Wicca or Witchcraft and be a Christian too?
Christianity has very firm rules against Witchcraft and Magick, so I think the answer is no if you want to consider yourself a true Christian. On the other hand, there's absolutely nothing wrong with believing in both things at the same time. More often than not the two religions harmonize with each other because the core beliefs are the same: Do no harm. Christianity, I suppose, is more focused on the belief in Christ, but aside from that the they're very much the same.

From wicca.com:

Again, some say yes and others maintain that they are completely separate religions. I believe that if one looks closely at the true teachings of Jesus with an open heart, you will find some stark commonalities. It is only when one takes literally the sometimes frail misinterpretations of those who misunderstood the intent or used the teachings to suit their own political agendas that one see's wide differences.

As a solitary you are free to choose any path you desire, or any blend that "feels" right to you. The important thing is to not allow a name or word to become a stumbling block. It is the intent of your actions and spirituality that matters in the end. I realize it is a poor comparison; Peanut Butter and Chocolate are two completely separate things. The fact remains, however, that they work pretty well when mixed together. Ultimately you must do what "feels" right to you...

--- The Wiccan Rede says "And it harm none, do as ye will." Does that mean a Witch can do anything they want and its OK if they justify the action to themselves?
Hahaha. No, like any other person Witches follow rules and regulations set before them, no matter how unjustified they might seem. No one is exempt from responsibilities and withholding rules.

From wicca.com:

An excellent question indeed! and the answer is no... The whole premise of our belief system is based on living in harmony with all things that exist. This includes, but is not limited to the earth, trees, rivers, lakes, oceans, air, and all of earth's creatures, as well as other people without regard to race, color, religion, or sexual orientation.

My interpretation of the Rede tells me that the creative force of the universe has given me an inner voice, or "conscience," which tells me what is right or wrong. It is also this consciousness that connects me to the creator. By listening to this inner voice, (Perhaps I should clarify here. No I do not hear voices, *smile* it is more like something I feel) I try to analyze my impulses and feelings to ensure they are not driven by greed, lust, envy, prejudice or anger. If they are, I try to put them in perspective or discard them all together. I then use common sense and judgment in my actions and accept full responsibility for them. This is not always easy to do, but I try. By keeping these ideals of right and wrong foremost in my mind, as well as seeking to obtain harmony and balance with nature and all living things, I am able to do my best at following the Rede as I go through my day.

This is not to say that Witches are perfect, never do anything wrong, or make mistakes. We are still human. We are aware of, or try to be aware of the karmic return of our actions, and are very careful not to send out negative energy in thought or deed.

Yes, sometimes a Witch will focus an energy form toward someone who needs a psychic zap. This is only done however when a person is consistently doing something very wrong within society and causing a lot of harm to others. If and when a Witch does zap someone, they do so with the full knowledge that it will eventually return to them and there will be a price to pay according to the Law of Three. There are times when we simply must make a personal sacrifice for the good of the whole and shoulder this weight.

When confronted with this type of situation, I prefer to bring this person to the attention of the Goddess, asking her that justice be done according to her will. In this way I am not focusing negative energy towards the individual and therefore am less likely to suffer karmic repercussions.

---OK, so if Wicca and Witchcraft are not evil, why do you hold rituals and ceremonies at night hidden in the woods?
Tradition, more than anything else. Being out in nature helps focus and clearing the mind for most. Nighttime is a time of peace and with a lot of specific rituals, the moon is a necessary guidance. Evil has nothing to do with time and place, it has to do with intentions.

The few times I've considered practicing Witchcraft, I always thought I would be much more comfortable in my room with music playing softly or incense burning or something. Personal preference has little to do with the nature of the Religion.

From wicca.com:

This practice has its history in a couple of different things, none of which have anything to do with evil... In the old world, especially within the Celtic tribes, the day followed an entirely different schedule than it does in modern times. The new day for them actually began at sunset. This is also why most observances of holidays were celebrated on the evening before the actual calendar day. The second reason is that survival had an entirely different meaning during those times. Almost without exception, everyone spent their daylight hours tending the crops, their herds, or engaged in their trade. All daylight hours were vitally important simply for survival reasons.

OK, so that takes care of why we observed our rites at night during ancient times, and many of the reasons are the same in today's times. For one, most of us are busy working all day earning a living, so the evening is the only time we have to seek spiritual communion. Secondly, Wicca and Witchcraft are still largely misunderstood religions and we are still persecuted for our beliefs. Another reason which is important for me, and possibly for others as well is that I feel a special closeness to the Goddess and God at night. Yes I can, and do, enjoy the mountains and meadows during the daylight, or a sunrise and sunset, but I am truly more aware of the heavens and the great expanse of the Universe at night, so it just makes sense for me.

---What form does the practice of Witchcraft take?
It varies depending on the person, belief system, and even the situation. It ranges from complex to simple with a lot of different forms in between.

---How do you see the Goddess and God?
This is a religious question specific to Wicca, but I thought it applied. It's hard to talk about Magick and the Craft without talking about the religion behind it.

I personally rely more on the Goddess than I do the God, but I know that's because of my specific situation. I rely on my mother rather than a father figure, so it makes more sense for me to rely on a figure that represents motherhood in my head. I see the All as having both female and male aspects, though I rely dominantly on the female part.

---Do all Witches practice their religion the same way?
I don't think so because no two Witches think exactly the same way. Even if they did the same ritual with the same intentions and the same situation, the result may be different. I think Witches practice Magick in whatever way makes them most comfortable.

From wicca.com:

Yes and no. Wicca is a highly individualistic religion. Moreover, the number of different sects within the Craft may give the impression that no two groups practice the same way. Though practices may vary, most traditions have many similarities, such as the working of magick and a respect for nature. Most Witches find enough common ground for mutual support and productive networking throughout the Craft community.

--- Is Witchcraft a cult?
I'm going to let wicca.com answer these next ones because I'll just be repeating stuff.

From wicca.com:

No. Cults are groups that trade a sense of salvation and belonging for the ability to think for oneself. They indulge in extravagant homage or adoration (Webster's Dictionary), usually of an earthly leader of some sort. If you know a real Witch, you'll quickly come to find the term "Cult" could not apply to us. Most Wiccans, Witches and pagans come to the Craft individually through reading and communing with nature. They often will remain solitary in their beliefs but other will also find like-minded people to celebrate seasonal cycles or monthly moons with. Witches are extremely individualistic, self sufficient and defend the right of free will without hesitation.

---Do Witches have a bible?

From wicca.com:

No. A bible is supposedly the word of a deity revealed through a prophet. Witchcraft is a Pagan folk-religion of personal experience. Witchcraft in the old times was much the same as the beliefs of the Essenes, Gnostics, Druids, and many other religions. The teachings were passed along by spoken word through long periods of one-on-one instruction with an Elder of the Craft. This approach was taken because the power and knowledge could be misused in the wrong hands. Therefore, by using only the spoken word, the old masters could ensure those who wished to follow the path had a true understanding and their hearts were in the right place as their knowledge of the mysteries grew. Unfortunately, when the medieval church began its attempts to convert and eliminate rival belief systems, the teachers were either killed outright or went underground resulting in much of the ancient knowledge being lost.

---If Witches don't have a bible, what do you use?

From wicca.com:

Most modern Witches keep a Book of Shadows, (BOS) or Grimoire, which is more like an individuals workbook, journal, or diary, meaningful to the person who keeps it. This book contains rituals, discoveries, spells, poetry, herb lore, etc. Covens almost always keep a similar group book. I am not exactly sure how the name "Book of Shadows" came to be, but I would assume that this also ties into the Burning Times when the church set out to eliminate all texts along with the followers of the old ways. The writings that existed were more than likely were taken into the shadows and hidden with the survivors.

---The word Tradition is used quite often. What is the exact meaning of this?

From wicca.com:

Here the word Tradition relates to the beliefs of a specific geographical region such as Celtic, Germanic, Norse, etc., and is sometimes broken down into further subsets. Essentially it is much the same as the variety of denominations seen within Christianity, such as Methodist, Mormon or Catholic.

---Do Witches cast spells?

From wicca.com:

Some do and some don't. Spellwork should never be the focus of following this path and those who seek our ways only for this purpose are very misguided. A spell is a ritual formula, or series of steps, to direct psychic energy to accomplish a desired end. This energy is drawn from the Earth with the aid of elementals, concentrated and sent out into the world to achieve a positive goal. Since Witchcraft teaches that whatever one sends out is returned threefold, Witches are very careful to never send out harmful energy carelessly. The Christian word for this is "Prayer". The only real difference is that Witches also invoke the aid of spirit guides, familiars or other elemental energies to add strength to the process as well as using ritual tools.

---Do Witches worship the devil?

From wicca.com:

No. Satan, or the Devil, has absolutely no place in Wicca or Witchcraft. The worship of Satan is the practice of profaning Christian symbolism and is thus a Christian heresy, rather than a Pagan religion. The Goddess and God of the Witches are in no way connected to Satanic practices. Satan, or the Devil, is a Christian creation and they are more than welcome to keep him.

---Are Witches only women?

From wicca.com:

No, although women do seem to predominate in the Craft overall. In fact, some traditions have only women practitioners, just as others have only men. A male Witch is simply called a Witch, never a warlock and it is considered an insult to call a male Witch "Warlock". The word "Warlock" actually means "oath breaker". Some traditions of Wicca separate between female/male. The word "Wicce" pronounced (Wik-kay) designates a female Witch and "Wicca" pronounced (Wik-kah) designates a male Witch.

---Is Witchcraft a religion?

From wicca.com:

Yes, Witchcraft is a nature based religion and it has been recognized as such in the United States and Canada. In the U.S., Wicca has full recognition as a religion and is granted all rights as such under the Constitution. The American Heritage Dictionary defines religion as "a belief in and reverence for a supernatural power recognized as the creator and governor of the universe". So yes, it does qualify as such. Our definition differs slightly in that to us, the creator of the universe IS the universe. Witchcraft, or Wicca, is not something that can be followed once in a while or when it is convenient or we need or want something. It is a dedication made to nature, the deities and yourself. It is a way of life, and as such we are mindful of the balance between ourselves and all things within the universe at all times.

All of that applies to Magick from a Wiccan standpoint, because that's how I know it best and how I think it's best explained. If you have any questions, or comments to add about your own experiences with Magick or even to [tastefully]dispute the existence of Magick, please do so here.

[Ammy Fae]

Aug 1, 2008 1:52:58 GMT -5 @misaki said:

Keyo, I did Chaos Magic, which is a form of what many people call 'postmodern magic' or skeptical magic. It includes ideas like..magic being nothing supernatural. No rituals you have to do, what you do, is just trying to get your mind in a certain state. If something works, use it. Most Chaos magicians don't believe in white and black magic, which is why some people are afraid of chaos magic; it's one of the most free, amoral forms of magic, and since most people who practice this form don't believe in anything like the threefold law or karma, usually. However, it's all strongly individualistic. But it does explain why some people are against it; it doesn't really have limitations, not moral ones. It depends on someone's own morals. It's a 'scientific' 'cold' approach to magic. And some people are perfectly okay with using what others consider to be black magic, since chaos magic is all about discovering and experimenting. Hmm. Here's an article on it:
www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.html?a=usil&c=trads&id=11184
Explains it pretty well.

Most people who practice this form of magic don't believe in Gods but still work with them. How? Because they invent them. Once you can think of a 'deity' who would be able to do something, you can manipulate your mind into a state of believing, and it will really work. because you believe in them. The important thing is, of course, that you'll never really believe in them. You only manipulate your mind and emotions at that moment. Lol, I once worked with Vana ( Tolkien), with Donald Duck ( do I have to explain, lol?!) etc.

Chaos Mages tend to believe that it is possible and even desirable to change one’s set of beliefs when the need or will arises, such as for magical purposes. Paradigm shifting is encouraged. The idea behind this is to learn to see that “reality, ” or most of what we take to be “reality” is just our own elaboration over the basic chaos of existence. What we understand, we call order. What we don’t understand, we call disorder. The rest we ignore. Understanding, what we understand, and how we come to understand all come from the way beliefs modify our perceptions.
Chaos Mages give no quarter to things like karma, magical rules, or any so-called correct or incorrect ways of doing things. These things have more to do with ethics or beliefs and ethics or beliefs should be decided upon by the individual. The famous CM saying “Nothing is True. Everything is Permitted” sums up the chaos approach to reality and also to specifically magical practices. Chaos Mages don’t necessarily believe in spirits or deities because these are seen as belonging to one or more paradigms that can be changed or shifted. In fact, magic is approached from what is known as the four working models (or paradigms): Animism (spirit), Energy, Psychological (the one everyone uses to explain magic to skeptics), and Informational (which is Chaos Magic’s contribution to the future development of magical practice).

^ From the article, and that's actually still the way I think, even though I don't actively practice magic atm. It's just my approach to life in general, I guess.
Like someone said, Chaos magicians are magical agnostics. They don't know what might be absolutely true, and suspect that nothing is -- and they DON'T CARE. That describes me pretty well.
I do realize not everyone is happy with chaos magic - I know people who have been called mad spiritual scientific anarchists by their 'freethinking' acquaintances. It's just a weird way of thinking, LMAO. I really understand why some people can't appreciate it.


Ammy, I'm so sorry if I offended you or anything. I do realize you're probably of a completely different opinion when it comes to magic, this is just my way of understanding it. Not ever saying it's the right way. I don't know. It works for me, something else works for someone else.

[Loki]

Magic, is simply unexplained science.
or simple trashy superstition.

Need I go on?

[Ammy Fae]

Be nice and give your reasoning why you think so or I will remove you, boy.

Unexplained science, by all definitions, is not science at all. Science is there to explain things, how they work and what they do, but now why they're there. Simple fact is that science can not explain everything, which is why there's any speculation at all. Go and disprove magick for me, show me proof it doesn't exist, and then ramble on about what an idiot I am, but not before then.

[ladytera]

Okay, I suppose I shall chime in here. On the face of it, I tend to think that the pagan religions are each a mishmash of legend and wishful thinking. That being said, I can kind of understand why people are drawn to them. I studied them a bit myself during my younger days, right down to playing with a little magic. That is however, all I will say on the subjects of the religions that tend to put credence in magic, as this isn't really a discussion of religion.

Magic, for lack of a better word, does exist. Generally in two forms. There is first the type of magic that taps into the energies within yourself to do things that would seem supernatural. Then there are the magics that tap into the energies of the world around you, and the other planes that you cannot necessarily see. Either or these can be extremely dangerous to the user, but most particularly the external magics. Internal magic you're more likely to cause yourself harm by messing with your life energies in such a way that it interferes with your biological functions. Often times, these things will correct themselves, given time, so while there is the possibility that you might stop your heart by accident, its relatively unlikely. With external powers, you are basically opening yourself up as a conduit for the powers around you, and when you open yourself like that, it is entirely possible that you'll let in a kind of power that wished to do you harm, and will not let you go when you are finished with it. Regardless of whether you are purely white (or good) in the magics you use, or if you dabble in black, and regardless of any precautions you might think you are taking, the simple fact is you purposely dismantle your natural defenses in order to tap those external powers, and once you do, you have little control over what is allowed to cross those boundaries.

I have little faith in silly rituals, that are often called magic these days. I don't particularly think there are people who ride broom sticks and wave magic wands. But I've met a man who can walk through walls, float in the air and disappear while you're looking right at him. I've learned myself the first stages of making myself heavy or light, hot or cold, controlling my heart rate. Those are all forms of internal magic (except maybe the disappearing). They are based in the Shaolin religion, in the case of this person. Many other religions have similar features.

As a Christian, the Bible says quite firmly that there is magic, and that it not to be trifled with. I'd guess mainly for the reasons I stated above. But Jesus healed the sick with a touch, raised a man from the dead, and multiplied the loaves and fishes to feed the masses. That too is magic in the sense that you are discussing here, it just stems from one source, namely God.

Ammy, don't be too quick to dismiss Loki's comments either though, he's historically accurate. Much of today's science was originally thought to be magic. Herbalists and Alchemists fall into the category of magician in that they use the natural world to create desired results. Gun powder was originally considered a form of magic as well, as was acupuncture, and several other natural disciplines that have been proven to work for scientific reasons that weren't understood at the time. So, in a sense he's right. A lot of magic is science unexplained. But I doubt very much all of it is, unless you consider the para-normal sciences that deal in alternate realities, psychic phenomena, etc.

Why, other than the Bible, do I believe magic exists? Because my father said so. During my experimentation stage, my father took away my books and candles when he found them, and sat me down to explain why he wouldn't permit experimentation in that area. He grew up in Brazil, where voodoo is one of the dominant religions in many areas. He saw first hand the results of the magic involved in that religion, and explained a lot of it to me. I was suitably impressed, and didn't play around with it anymore. Another basic reason, I spent my high school years in the Bay Area in California. There are places in the hills around Berkley where something watches you in the trees in the wee hours of the morning, and it isn't particularly friendly. There is a presence in places there, where magic tends to be prevelant, that is down right frightening, and certainly not human or animal. So, I believe magic is real. But I also believe it is a force best left alone, as no one here really understands it, and it's likely to cause you a great deal of harm because of that lack of understanding.

BTW, Ammy, I appreciate that you respect that rule in my house, even though you may not agree with it.

[misaki]

I partly agree with both Loki and ladythera. I do think magic is unexplained science: that's why I use the CM method. But I also think magic is, to some point, science that can't be entirely explained: not because it's so mystical/divine/whatever, simply because there are borders to what our brain can wrap itself around.

I agree with ladythera on many modern rituals being nonsense. I think they're often taken far too seriously, while based on some primitive ideas someone just had at some point. The fact that I replaced some ancient goddess with the fictional Vana at one point and got the same result is kind of hilarious when you read the ritual's authoress blabbering about not mixing pantheons and calling everyone by their original name, with the right pronounciation.

Plus, the results of those rituals are often so vague it could very well be mere chancw!

I have more faith in magic that actually has obvious, direct results. For example: I'm now trying to wrap my head around the technique of 'glamours', which is illusional shapeshifting. You don't actually shift shape of course! But if you're good at it, you should be able to project an illusion: when someone looks at you, they see something else. It's hard work though. Srying is another thing with more visible results.

I also partly agree with ladythera on magic being possibly dangerous: there's a reason why you shouldn't practise it when mentally unstable or tipsy. That's true for many things, though. Driving a car for example.

Have to disagree with magic always being harmful or bad, though. I't definitely brings out the best AND the worst in people. It helps me to concentrate better, think out of the box, and very few times to lessen my allergies a little (though, tbh, I'm not very much into healin techniques, so I doubt I get the optimal result)
On contact with non-human things: agree on them not always being friendly, some people should definitely be more careful. They're not all bad either though.

[keyodie]

Oh wow, this discussion is fascinating. I am definitely going to have to read up on this stuff...

[ladytera]

Aerlinn, thanks for the great response. One note, I don't believe that all magic is bad, nor I do believe that all entities involved in magic or other realms are bad. I do believe that all magic is dangerous (not necessarily harmful), because not all those forces are good, and we, as humans, have little understanding or control over what we tap into.

As to healing type magics, for your allergies, I'm not sure it would help, but you might want to check out Tai Chi, and in particular the meditation exercises that allow you to tap into your internal energies. One of my best teachers was a guy who had been in a horrible accident that had him nearly crippled from the waist down. He had tremendous head and spinal trauma that the doctors told him was irreparable. When I met him, ten years after he began practicing Tai Chi, he was not only completely mobile and pain free, he was a second or third level black belt in Kung Fu and a second or third level black sash in Tai Chi. He accomplished that through the body manipulations available in the Shoalin studies. Just a thought that might help you get some relief. I know it helps adjust imbalances in your system, but I don't know how it might apply directly to allergic reactions.

[keyodie]

Oh wow. My mom's a tai chi teacher. She's been one for I think more than a decade.

[misaki]

Ladythera, I fully agree with how you put that about those other entities. Though I have to say there are many different types of magic, and not all of them are either internal or involving outer sources; 'casting' a glamour for example, has more to do with manipulating another human's thoughts than changing yourself or seeking contact. I am also not even sure these entities exist; to my knowledge, if you believe something, really believe it, it becomes part of your personal subjective world, and it can definitely have a ( psychological ) effect. That doesn't have to mean these 'beings' actually exist anywhere outside of your own head; I also don't think it means you're insane. They could just be representations of different sides of yourself.

I'll take a look at Tai Chi, thanks like I said before, I'm not exactly a healer I'm more of a crazy experimenter. Shifting paradigms and scrying are by far my favorite. And trying direct-result things like glamours. Once I'm more mentally stable ( since I was diagnosed with PSTD a few days ago ( thanks LDM btw!!! They couldn't figure out what exactly was wrong with me, but they did now, thanks to your ideas! *huggles* ) ...I don't think it's wise to experiment with new things now. Scrying is okay because it's just tapping into my own unconscious and paradigm shifting is okay because it's part of who I am, and very, very practical to calm myself ) ..I may have a look at healing techniques. Mine are, least to say, primitive.

I think the danger of magic is actually not in magic itself; yes, it can cause already psychologically instable people to do things ranging from silly to dangerous. I knew a woman who lost a child, then tried to seek contact. I don't know what she contacted, but she jumped out of her flat and killed herself. Maybe she just went insane with the idea of seeing her son again, and the psychological pressure 'magical' things can add was just too much. I think the danger is in far more often in a person's own mind than anything supernatural. I actually doubt she contacted anything, save for her own unconscious. Anyway, i think the danger is more in the effect it can have on one's sanity, and even more so, some people seem to get 'addicted' to it. Maybe because of the feeling of control over theirselves, life, and other people. ( which is illusionary if it's a feeling of control over anything but yourself, and your life. ) Maybe it's just morbid fascination. Idk, anyway, I think magic shouldn't be what your life revolves around. There's no salvation, no UberSupercontrol in magic. Just interesting discoveries about yourself, some interesting techniques and maybe a feeling connection to other living beings.

[Loki]

Well thanks for making me seem more right lady tera, its difficult to do myself in all honesty....


Magic, is just a concept for the unexplained, I don't belive in magic having any part in reality..