|
Post by keyodie on Jul 12, 2008 22:06:59 GMT -5
So, what religion do you belong to?
I'm agnostic meself.
|
|
|
Post by Ammy Fae on Jul 12, 2008 22:26:43 GMT -5
I put Pagan, but I study all religion. ^_^
|
|
|
Post by keyodie on Jul 12, 2008 23:00:00 GMT -5
I have a couple other pagan friends, what do you guys believe in exactly?
|
|
|
Post by Ammy Fae on Jul 12, 2008 23:57:48 GMT -5
I think it's different for every person, and really hard to explain. I personally believe in an....entity that made everything in existence. I won't try to explain how they came into existence, because I couldn't. No one can, it's impossible. But I do believe in something because I have a hard time believing that the emotions we have[that go deeper than just chemical reactions in the brain] were created by an explosion. I believe that the world was created just like we were and is alive. I believe in the three-fold rule; that if I do something it will come back to me three-fold[karma, basically]. I'm not sure what I believe in regards to afterlife. Though if I had to guess, I don't think we're meant to ever know what happens when we die because it would take all the mystery out of life.
That's basically the synopsis. ^_^ I can answer questions and whatnot about specific things.
|
|
|
Post by keyodie on Jul 13, 2008 0:04:27 GMT -5
Ah. Actually I believe in a lot of that, though I'm not too sure about karma. I think something created "life" or the "world" or whatever you would call all of this, because I think, why would there be existence in the first place if there was nothing? I don't know, I just think there's something out there, ya know?
And I have similar ideas about how we're not meant to know what comes after life. I just live for now. I'm actually a pretty... spiritual person, I guess. Even though I do have some pretty atheistic views.
Thanks for clearing that up though. I always figured it was a mother nature kind of thing.
|
|
Jocelyn
Journeyman
What are you looking at?
Posts: 131
|
Post by Jocelyn on Jul 13, 2008 0:15:35 GMT -5
I put other because I am not really quite sure what I believe in anymore, at a point in my life I believed in a Heaven, but that changed for me and after reading both of your beliefs, I find that I believe in a lot of the same things. [see how many times I use a form of belief... woah]
Karma, ah yes I have had my fair share and believe in it coming back to bite you. I think what I call my religion is faith... I have faith in myself and that there is something bigger out there that I am not meant to believe. Something so confounding and mysterious that it is not supposed to be explained and remain thus... if that makes any sense.
There has to be something that made this place we live on, and our existence, I am just not exactly sure what.
As for an afterlife, that is my greatest fear in life, not knowing what comes after death. Like Ammy, I believe we aren't meant to know, and I have faith that when my time comes that will be that.
|
|
|
Post by keyodie on Jul 13, 2008 0:21:56 GMT -5
Yeah, I am pretty afraid of the afterlife. I don't know, it just seems so endless. The possibilities are endless, and it's supposed to go on forever.. And I can't even grasp the concept of "forever". Words like forever, infinity, and nothing tend to scare me a bit, because they're all so endless, and even if you think about them for a long time, you can't really grasp what they mean. Sort of.
I think my greatest fear though, when it comes to afterlife, is the possibility that it's nothing. Just darkness and nothing forever.
Lollipops and rainbows!
|
|
Jocelyn
Journeyman
What are you looking at?
Posts: 131
|
Post by Jocelyn on Jul 13, 2008 0:25:28 GMT -5
I think my greatest fear though, when it comes to afterlife, is the possibility that it's nothing. Just darkness and nothing forever. My sentiments exactly, it's like we live this life and then there is nothing, just a void, a darkness and that scares me more than death itself... I like grapes ^_^
|
|
|
Post by Ammy Fae on Jul 13, 2008 1:45:57 GMT -5
I think if there is 'nothing', just a blank void forever, we won't realize it. If whoever or whatever created us[if there's something that did] wanted us to be that disposable, I think she would have mercy enough to let us forget that there's something beyond the void. It wouldn't bother you as much if that's all you ever knew.
Back to the Mother Nature thing, it is like that. I didn't describe it in those terms particularly because I describes the All, the being that created us and everything. But the all is split into two entities, the Sky Father and the Earth Mother, and they are split into different entities and so on and so forth, like a big family tree so to speak. At least that's how I see it. They're all different aspects of the same thing. But it's so hard to visualize the All because we really can't. It's like visualizing the afterlife, I don't think we're really meant to understand just yet because we wouldn't be able to comprehend it.
|
|
darow
Student
Totoro phr34k.
Posts: 8
|
Post by darow on Jul 13, 2008 1:50:33 GMT -5
I am aetheist. I am agnostic. And I am Pagan. :3 Cuz I am awesome. It's possible really. I'm aetheist because I believe in none of the main "existing" gods right now. I'm agnostic because I acknowledge that there /could/ be something. And I'm pagan because I a) like Rome, and b) use the names of their gods to give thanks for whatever I happen to feel greatful for.
|
|
|
Post by keyodie on Jul 13, 2008 1:58:15 GMT -5
Well I'm kind of like that too. I have some atheistic views and I have some agnostic views. And apparently, I have some pagan views. But I consider myself agnostic because I believe a lot of things are possible, and I believe different things from different religions.
|
|
|
Post by Ammy Fae on Jul 13, 2008 2:50:49 GMT -5
^ I'm pretty much the same. Just...most of my views[not all, mind you] fall under Paganistic definition. I love exploring other faiths, mostly by reading but also by listening to the people under different religions. And honestly? Religion is such a generalization, the worst of any, because not one single person believes the EXACT same thing as another. It's impossible.
|
|
|
Post by Lady Dark Moon on Jul 14, 2008 11:07:49 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree with everything that's been said here. I put myself down as agnostic, though it's hard to generalize my beliefs.
A few things I do know for certain though. 1. Like you guys have mentioned, fear of the unknown... endless void after death... is overpowering. I believe this leads to the foundation of all religions. 2. We humans are arrogant b*stards. God created us in his image, to lord over all animals? Oh please. The era of humanity came and will pass in the blink of an eye. In a million years, the earth will reclaim its own. However, we do have a "lord over all animals." We call it bacteria. 3. So we're screwed. Oh well. Might as well live and be happily screwed while we're at it.
And yeah, pagan sounds good right now, especially the duality concept of light and dark, sky and earth, etc.
|
|
Larael
Student
"Does the Walker choose the Path, or does the Path choose the Walker?"
Posts: 24
|
Post by Larael on Jul 15, 2008 0:20:35 GMT -5
Mmm.. it seems I'm in the minority here. Now I know how all of you feel. I'm a Christian, and whilst I do not believe my beliefs will ever change I can say I'm very open-minded when it comes to religion. I read all of your points above so that I could be more informed, because personally, that's what I think the majority of people lack when coming into contact with other religions. Being informed is the first step toward acceptance.
|
|
|
Post by smeagollum on Jul 15, 2008 3:36:34 GMT -5
I am a Christian also.
And I have to diddo everything Lareal said.
I just read through all of the posts...
Karma, I am uhhhhh about it. I believe in the idea of consequence, whether that be good or bad. I mean, every cause produces an effect. However, that effect having to be bad or having to be good. Ehhh.. not sure. One example I would use is good extensions with opposing outcomes.
Afterlife, it is one of the freakiest things going, that's for sure, and I have to salute LDM for the "foundation of all religions" comment. I believe that all humans have an inborn dwelling of "needing" to believe something.. if that makes sense. I mean, what would all of this talk of purpose to life and yada yada yada be from other than that? I believe that, as humans, one of the concepts we thrive on is security, particularly from this subject, security for after death.
|
|
|
Post by Ammy Fae on Jul 15, 2008 9:43:13 GMT -5
Firstly, thank you Larael and Smeag for joining. =) We didn't make this forum so that only atheists, Pagans, or anyone not-Christian could join. This discussion topic would be completely pointless if we all agreed with eachother. I, for one, certainly hope you don't agree with me all of the time[I mean, even Mika and I disaagree sometimes ] Lar - You hit the nail on the head there, hon. The only thing I disagree with is information being a step towards acceptance. I don't think that acceptance between religions is possible for most people, even with being informed and open-minded. You believe what you believe. No one's beliefs are rock solid, but generally speaking, they won't change because someone else makes a few good points. This is to gain knowledge about the different things around you. Eliminate the bubble, so to speak. Smeag - You made a good point with the Karma subject. How I've always looked at it though is that Karma goes both ways, good and bad, basically another way of saying what you did about good and bad consequences. Though I think it goes beyond the act of doing something. If you do something knowledgeably with bad intentions, for example, that causes bad karma. Now, a child who hits their sibling because they don't know any better isn't going to get hit with a bus or something. That would make the world a very confusing, very destructive place that people would fear. Unfortunately, nowadays, if something bad happens to you, you just blame it on someone or something else and deny your part in it. It lessens the fear but not the risk, so to speak. Am I the only one here not afraid of the afterlife or lackthereof? Seriously? I mean, not that I blame you. It's unknown, and it's mysterious and generally anything unknown makes people want to know what it is and afraid to know what it might be at the same time. Stacy kinda hit all the points I'd make here. We need to believe in something, even if it's to believe in a lack of something. There may or may not be a giant floating ball of white light on a different plane of existence looking at us in all our glory and power and whatnot, but whether it's there or whether we were an accident of science, there will always be people who believe the former and, contrarily, there will always be people who believe the latter. That all depends on personal history, knowledge, and open-mindedness, but mostly how you view the world around you. Talking to Caunion last night got me thinking about the meaning of life. I'm not going to ramble on about that because there's another thread I can do that in, but I will however say how it relates to my personal beliefs. I told Caunion[very confidently, I might add; For some reason I get all philosophical with these types of things] that I don't want to know the meaning of life. That would cancel out everything I've ever done, make it meaningless, and I don't want that for myself. I'm not afraid of knowing, persay, but I don't want that yet. Not until I believe I've lived my life completely. Because the meaning of life will inevitably have the meaning of faith, religious beliefs, and the mother of all inquiries attached to it. I enjoy learning so much and I enjoy speculating so much that I don't know if it's possible to want the meaning of everything. Say, if I got hit by a car on my way to work today and was dying, and I figured it all out, I would look back on my life and be discontent. Not because I didn't live it fully but because I know I wasn't given enough time to learn all I'd wanted to before being given the answer. And yes, I do think you get all the answers in death. But I think to understand them, you have to understand the questions too, which is why we're all here.
|
|
|
Post by Caunion on Jul 15, 2008 11:44:20 GMT -5
I said I was an atheist because out of all of the words that could describe, that was the one. I don't think there are any deities or gods out there nor will I be inclined to believe in them until I actually see some evidence of their existence. There is a small possibility there might be one or several gods, but it's the same possibility there might be fairies in the garden.
As for the afterlife, in truth, I really don't care. If there is a hell that I'm going to, well, darn, I was wrong. But I'm not quite sure what's out there and personally, it doesn't matter. OK, let's say all that's going to happen is a giant black void of darkness. That doesn't affect how I live my life. I'll still act kindly to people because it makes me feel better when I do. I don't act kindly to people or do good deeds because someone is judging me at the end. I just find that idea ridiculous, like it's suggesting the only reason why people do good things is because they're scared of the consequences of doing bad things.
So really I don't spend a whole lot of time thinking if there are gods out there or what's going to happen to us when we die. I have loads of other things that I should be thinking about anyway. That doesn't mean I think people who think there are gods and contemplate on the afterlife are ridiculous, quite the contrary. I find religious studies a very interesting study and might take that in college. It helps me understand why some people are so devout to their faith that they're willing to do anything in their name. It is also very interesting in what they believe and how it compares to what other people believe in. But I think I'm far happier not thinking there is a god out there somewhere.
|
|
Larael
Student
"Does the Walker choose the Path, or does the Path choose the Walker?"
Posts: 24
|
Post by Larael on Jul 15, 2008 12:04:41 GMT -5
Nice to see you here as well, smeag! Ammy - I see your point, however I think it is possible to accept other religions just maybe not as you do your own. Actually, maybe acceptance isn't the right word. How about awknowledging and accepting a difference of beliefs? There are many I people I know who have a hard time accepting that not everyone has the same beliefs as them. I'd like to think that as I become more informed I can accept that what others believe may be just as rock solid as what I believe. I agree with Caunion on thinking about the afterlife, although my reasoning is a bit different. I don't spend much time worrying about it, because I know where I'm going. I may not be right, but that's what I'd like to believe in. Has anyone ever thought that perhaps no religion is right or wrong? That when we die there is a different afterlife for all of us based on what we believed in life? I know that seems like such a simple solution, but it's something I've considered. I'm not a believer in karma however. Sure, I believe if we do bad things they usually have bad consequences, but that may just be because of experiences I've had.
|
|
|
Post by Caunion on Jul 15, 2008 12:17:11 GMT -5
I have toyed with that idea for a while. Thinking that there is this afterlife specifically designed for us and no matter what we believe in, we get what we want in the end. And I suppose that is some conciliation to people who have spend most of their years suffering from pain or grief. That is an interesting idea, Larael.
|
|
|
Post by Ammy Fae on Jul 15, 2008 12:23:14 GMT -5
Caunion - I love you, even though you're a godless heathen. ;D Okay, got that out of my system. I like your point about how religion makes people afraid of doing bad things or, more specifically, end-of-life judgment does. It's entirely possible for us to act on our own behalf, like you do, but underlying that in a lot of religious people I know personally is that deep-seated fear of hell. I don't actually believe in hell. I think if there was a pit of fiery doom we're sent to after death if we were bad boys and girls in our lives, it would have crossed the dimensions already. Actually, anyone who hasn't should read the Screwtape Letters by C.S.Lewis. It's a really interesting take on the devil-human relationship, so to speak.
Clearing some things up that I forgot to mention; I do not believe in hell, or Satan, or anything like that. I think that God or whomever is as malicious as she is merciful. There is no need for an absolute evil because nothing, including God, is absolutely evil or absolutely good. Look at the platypus. What completely good being would make that?
Larael - I get what you're saying. Kindof like an agree to disagree situation. I tell people all the time that religion is relative to the person who believes of does not believe in it. Different for everyone. So I think your afterlife theory is entirely probable. After all, what may work for one person may not work for another and vice versa.
|
|